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2DRSRT4
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![[*]](./images/xn/default_icon.gif) posted on 1-29-2010 at 10:59 PM |
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Engine discussion. All engines, All arguments. etc. etc.
What's your favorite style of engine? Rotary? Standard pushrod technology? Or maybe jet turbo has your fancy? If we get into a discussion or
argument, make sure you quote and state who you're talking to. I don't want flame either, this is just clean discussion about different engines,
their pros/cons and what you have had experience working with or running.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 1-29-2010 at 11:43 PM |
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 I want to see some good discussion here. If you want to bring
it, I suggest pulling some resources with you. At the very least do a wikipedia search to back yourself up,but by no means be afraid to throw in your
two cents.
Chris,you seem to be a fan of the Rotary by Herr Wankel. I think you should start us off here. Give us a general idea of how they work,their ups
and downs plus a examples.
These are some amazing little engines. I will try to track down pictures of the Miata from my hometown that had a rotary and the supercharger from
a Ford Lightning.
Let the carnage begin. 
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 1-30-2010 at 12:07 AM |
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I like the rotary engine but personally wouldn't put it in anything but an RX7. Not even the RX8 deserves such a great engine. I do prefer a pushrod
big block chevy, but that's beside the point right now. I'll get into big blocks in a bit.
A rotary engine has quite a few advantages. I'll start off with the making of a rotary.
If you roll a circle on it's circumference on another circle of double the diameter a point within the circle will lay a path that has a curve in it.
They call this curve a trochoid or an epitrohoid. Using that base line with the trochoid in it, you can lay a triangle inside. This triangle can
rotate freely and each of the three tips will touch ever square inch of the 'fore mentioned curve with the trochoid. Now you could have more than one
kind. You could have a three circle one with a diamond inscribed or even crazier a 4 circle with a pentagon shape. These other designs weren't as
efficient or practical to make. We use the simple double circle style design that is used in Mazdas or by Wenkel. Because the triangle moves so well
it's the best design for automotive use. While the triangle is inside the chamber it divides it into three separate chambers that are always changing
volume and pressure of said volume. One of the biggest advantages to a rotary engine is that it is directly transmitting power to the crankshaft
instead of a push rod engine that transmits energy from the piston top through the rod, to the crank. With a rotary engine you don't have to worry
about throwing a rod. Nor do you have to worry about valves. The rotor creates a vacuum that sucks in air, and when is combusted will force it out
very efficiently. You get less mixed intake/exhaust combustion mixtures. Also because on a rotary you have three surfaces for combustion you in theory
could make up to three times the amount of energy. Although this isn't always true a rotary engine can support more boost than a tradition push rod
style engine. No worry about Breaking push rods anymore. Also with a push rod engine if you only had 1 piston it would make two turns but only have
one explosion. Whereas a rotary you have three to one. three explosions to one turn of the rotor, also three turns of the crank. More power, more
efficiently.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 1-30-2010 at 12:52 AM |
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Also, with the rotary engine you have less parts to deal with, and also because combustion, intake, exhaust, and compression all occur in different
areas of the engine, you can consider pre-detonation a thing of the past. It won't overheat the intake stroke causing a knock cause of two ignition
fronts. Meaning you can use 86 octane on high compression. I believe that even with turbo you can still run only 86 octane.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 1-30-2010 at 02:36 AM |
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http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1566748104.html
You might be interested in this
...hmmm this too,but for another reason
http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1573046739.html
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neondeception
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| posted on 1-30-2010 at 03:43 AM |
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For people that like moving pictures and bright colors to go with their explanations... http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine4.htm
97 dodge neon 2 door sport 5speed
08 PT cruiser auto non-turbo 
Hi. My name is Tim and I'm a twitter addict. I will not stop using. *sits down* |
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 1-30-2010 at 09:16 PM |
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So,for every rotation of the crankshaft there is one combustion cycle,unlike the Otto cycle engines (4 stroke engines  better known as the engine under your hood unless you are driving a riding
tractor like the water boy) in which the crankshaft has to turn twice for a combustion stroke.
That sounds much more efficient. Also,as Chris and I were talking earlier today,the rotary engine has less parasitic loss associated with the
moving of valve-train.Face it those 16 valves are great for letting air in and out,but the mechanical parts that are required to move them actually
use engine power to move them. Those Crane valve springs you bought are great at keeping the valve from floating but they require extra power to
unseat the valve.
The ports built into the side of the rotary case do not need valves or the hardware associated with them. No complicated rocker arm arrangement or
expensive camshaft for timing.
Also,to go back to the combustion cycle of the rotary,the power pulse that it delivers last 270 degrees of crankshaft rotation compared to in a
piston engine where the power pulse lasts only 90 degrees of the full cycle (not 90 degrees of the crankshaft rotation,but a quarter of the 4 strokes
needed for an Otto engine to complete a cycle.) This provides a much more even running engine.
The rotors are geared to turn at 1/3 crankshaft speed which means they see less extreme rotation speed than a piston engine which rotates at the
same speed as the crankshaft.This should promote longevity compared to it's piston brethren.
If these engines are so awesome,then why are you still running with Otto under your hood?
Pulled from howstuffworks.com
| Quote: |
There are some challenges in designing a rotary engine:
* Typically, it is more difficult (but not impossible) to make a rotary engine meet U.S. emissions regulations.
* The manufacturing costs can be higher, mostly because the number of these engines produced is not as high as the number of piston engines.
* They typically consume more fuel than a piston engine because the thermodynamic efficiency of the engine is reduced by the long combustion-chamber
shape and low compression ratio. |
And the ever loved Wikipedia.org
| Quote: |
However, the less effective sealing of the Wankel is one factor reducing its efficiency, confining its success mainly to applications such as racing
engines and sports vehicles where neither efficiency nor long engine life are major considerations.Compared to four stroke piston engines, the time
available for fuel to be port injected into a Wankel engine is significantly shorter, due to the way the three chambers rotate. The fuel-air mixture
cannot be pre-stored as there is no intake valve.
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 2-1-2010 at 08:38 PM |
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What is that holley and 871 supercharger doin chillin on that manifold looking thing?? What is it??
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 2-1-2010 at 09:00 PM |
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It is attached to a 1.3 Mazda rotary....  I tried finding a side picture
so you could better see the Rotary,but I could not.
Here...how about this....
POW
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 04:09 PM |
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Here is an engine that I have found to be interesting. The Chevy ECOTEC motor. You have more than likely seen a million of them on the road in
everything from a base Cavalier to the HHR.They have been supercharged and turbocharged. From what I have read it was co-designed with Lotus.
My experience with them has shown that they are quite capable in stock form.When I get a chance I will put what specs I can find about them.
What is your input?
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 07:20 PM |
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The ecotec was made for gas efficiency. I don't like it much and I'ld rather have a V8!! I will have one in my 69 soon enough, already have the
engine and it's built, etc. etc. just need to buy it from the guy and get the 5 speed or 6 speed from a newer camaro to bolt it to. The ecotec makes
decent power but my friend in his cobalt ls wants to race me. He has the 2.2 ecotec and he has an intake and full exhaust. He said he ran 17's or
something. I know I'm going to beat him and my engine is stock so if I had to have a 4 cylinder I'm glad it's this one. Or a 4G63. That would be a
beast to have.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 3-6-2010 at 12:45 AM |
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Anyone into Twin turboed V8's?
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 3-7-2010 at 09:12 AM |
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This brings back memories. A friend of mine wanted to do this. We would talk for hours about how we might go about it.
The thing I can bring to the table is boat exhaust manifolds. Look it up and thank me. Ha ha
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 3-7-2010 at 04:28 PM |
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Haha, I've thought of just that before also. Although, I know that turboed fox body stangs usually run 9's and can be street driven just fine.
Turbos are tempting on a v8, but I do like all motor for them also. There's nothing better than an old school v8, rasping and gasping barely idling
because of how much lift the cam has, and then watching it take off and your jaw dropping to the floor and that lovely V8 roar.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 3-7-2010 at 04:54 PM |
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Two junkyard garret t3's on top. We were thinking junkyard dog engine combination.
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2k1neon
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| posted on 3-7-2010 at 06:47 PM |
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I don't have a favorite engine type per say, I appreciate the engineering that goes into a proven platform. Personally I have had buddies with
nothing but horror stories dealing with the wankel (sp) rotors that came in the FD's Apex seals are too sensitive to the slightest knock. I prefer a
much more solid platform that can take the abuse. The 4g63 is an astounding block that has been proven time and again to be able to hold massive
amounts of power with stock internals. The 2.4 in the srt's are the same way, with thresholds of around 500whp on stock internals. The
2jz...LS1....4.6Mods and 5.4 mods in Fords. The series 3 3800 GM's and so on.
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Whiplash
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| posted on 3-7-2010 at 10:02 PM |
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Same here. I don't really have any preference, but I know most about 4G63Ts, 4G67, etc. I did a flow test on a ecotec in engine design and the
numbers were mpressive when compaired to other engines people brought in.
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KlaPhunk
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| posted on 3-8-2010 at 12:58 PM |
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what about the famous RB26DETT or the RB25DETT........both amazing engines i myself have never drivin a RB26DETT, but my 240 had the RB26DE swap in
with the tranny from the RB25..becasue that trans was RWD where as the RB26 was an AWD
i lost my neon, but not the love!
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 3-8-2010 at 03:52 PM |
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I do not have any experience with the RB motors. I was always interested in them though
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KlaPhunk
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| posted on 3-8-2010 at 11:23 PM |
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even the SR20DET(silvia) is an amazing engine........i wonder if anyone has ever tried to swap one into a neon?
i lost my neon, but not the love!
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2DRSRT4
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| posted on 3-9-2010 at 01:35 AM |
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EWWW that's blasphemous!! And even though I do like the RB series and SR series engines NO!!! Not for a neon, totally not. I had an idea of a Datsun
510 with an RB26DETT swapped in though. And also, hate to burst your bubble KlaPhunk but the RB25 and the RB26 are interchangeable. I've seen guys
with GTS's put an RB26 no problem in. The reverse swap would be useless though. No way an RB25 would be worth doing in a GTR. a GTR just has to have
that .1 liters more of engine.
97 neon
All stock.. For now......
69 C10
L6 6 cylinder engine, hoping to swap out for a 454 soon enough. Stock 3 speed on the floor with a Hurst Indy shifter.
65 C20
283 small block, 4 speed on the floor with granny gear in first. (FOR SALE!!!)
Friends don't let friends drive FORDS!! LOL
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turbo2.4
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| posted on 3-9-2010 at 02:08 AM |
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I have seen a few sr20 240 swaps around. They were pretty nice.
I think the swap would be interesting really. A ton of custom work but a unique car when it is done.
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KlaPhunk
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| posted on 3-10-2010 at 01:48 AM |
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hahaha i know it is im an importer turned domestics sorry man i didnt realize what i said till after i said it it happens quite a bit with me.....lol
and if you think about it those "jap" engines are actually made here in the usa so if you think about their actually american.........lol
| Quote: | Originally posted by 2DRSRT4
And also, hate to burst your bubble KlaPhunk but the RB25 and the RB26 are interchangeable. I've seen guys with GTS's put an RB26 no problem in. The
reverse swap would be useless though. No way an RB25 would be worth doing in a GTR. a GTR just has to have that .1 liters more of engine.
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and what are you talking about the RB20DET is in the R31 and R32 and the R33 skylines they put the RB25DETT and in the R34's they put the RB26DETT
and a 240sx comes with a KA24e(sohc) or a KA24de(dohc) and in japan the silvias come with a SR20DET(dohc)
sorry i have a thing for skylines. that would be the reason i had a RB26DE(not a fan of turbos) swaped into my 240sx xe coupe which aslo looks like a
skyline(differance flip up lights)
yeah the kid i gave the 240sx to swap the RB out and put a SR in it and now uses it for drifting......the RB was not worth saving after what i did to
it......lol i learned my lesson about street racing dont try and beat a talon with a 2stage turbo while facing oncoming traffic @150mph
i lost my neon, but not the love!
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2k1neon
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| posted on 3-10-2010 at 05:50 AM |
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im notsure i understand where you got your information on jap engines being built here? most are imported but built and manufactured in japan. the
cars themselves are just assembled here. and the sr20 was quit common here, some of the 240's did come with them, and alot of the 200sx's also came
with them stock. the bad thing is, the majority of the neon engines, srt included are built and manufactured from mexico, so technically we all drive
imports.
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KlaPhunk
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| posted on 3-10-2010 at 09:57 AM |
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hmmm really didnt realize i kinda figured if cars are made here engines musta bein also.....and a stock 240(american) doesnt come with a SR and i have
never seen a 200sx with an SR if i remeber right they liked to put the 1.8l(cant rm engine code) pulsar engine into those cars for the same reason 240
owners would swap the 2.4 for the 2.0
oh and btw why would it be wrong to put a jap motor into an american car. when we take LS1's/V8 and put them into 240's.
most mitus have dsm engines
and i was very disapointed when i found out i couldnt sawp the 4g63 into my neon
i lost my neon, but not the love!
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